tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6865007.post2200417898498297750..comments2023-11-05T00:59:10.828-07:00Comments on decorabilia: vigilantism's symbiotic relationship with legitimate enforcementJim Andersonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09928624189124041120noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6865007.post-67254099798682794642009-03-02T14:38:00.000-08:002009-03-02T14:38:00.000-08:00Thanks Jim!Also, my teammate brought up the other ...Thanks Jim!<BR/><BR/>Also, my teammate brought up the other day a way to define "the law." He says he may define it as not only statutory law, but also (because the term is so vague) other kinds - for example the law of the Bible, which dictates an eye for an eye. <BR/><BR/>It's an interesting prospect. But do you see it as too abusive?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6865007.post-47648323413934911852009-03-02T14:06:00.000-08:002009-03-02T14:06:00.000-08:00jimi'm trying to write an affirmtaive case about h...<B>jim</B><BR/><BR/>i'm trying to write an affirmtaive case about how vigilance committees work parallel to the supplanted government... it seems to be that those 'bad' vigilance committees in history were not in action during a failure of law enforcement... therefore it is not a conditional affirmation if i prove that vigilance committees to act parallel... besides that i have some social contract framework on how the vigilance committees act as the authority that fulfills the legal body's obligation to the people however i do not want to V/VC the social contract. do you have any other ideas for a V/VC structure? How about the rule of law? Or something else??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6865007.post-62085048405275233442009-03-02T08:31:00.000-08:002009-03-02T08:31:00.000-08:00In the history of vigilantism, a few vigilante gro...In the history of vigilantism, a few vigilante groups have cooperated with--and been coopted by--legitimate authorities. It should be noted, though, that the APL operated during wartime, and so was part of the overall "war effort," rather than acting as a law enforcement mechanism. <BR/><BR/>In other words, you can certainly raise the issue, but don't rest your whole case on the prospect--that'd be conditional affirmation.Jim Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09928624189124041120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6865007.post-30057774269195971602009-03-02T08:07:00.000-08:002009-03-02T08:07:00.000-08:00Hi Jim.Can vigilantes work WITH the government eve...Hi Jim.<BR/><BR/>Can vigilantes work WITH the government even though they are acting outside the law?<BR/><BR/>I was looking up the organizations that Capozzola mentioned, and here's the description that Wikipedia gave of the American Protective League:<BR/><BR/>"The American Protective League was an American World War I-era private organization that worked with federal law enforcement agencies in support of the anti German Empire movement."<BR/><BR/>I never knew that vigilantism could include government cooperation ... so is the answer yes?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6865007.post-71865019854250775062009-02-26T19:25:00.000-08:002009-02-26T19:25:00.000-08:00(Just to clarify that second paragraph--in other w...(Just to clarify that second paragraph--in other words, even if due process is <I>supposed to be</I> a part of justice, there is no guarantee on the Neg side that the government in any way respects due process rights any more than the Aff does (or doesn't).Jim Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09928624189124041120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6865007.post-2491189117386891932009-02-26T19:23:00.000-08:002009-02-26T19:23:00.000-08:00pgrabz, many, many Affs are going to be based, eit...<B>pgrabz</B>, many, many Affs are going to be based, either explicitly or implicitly, on consequentialist reasoning. It's not weak if it's established as part of your framework, rather than saved for a mere rebuttal. One of the keys is to emphasize the exigency of the situation: whatever the government's reasons for failure to enforce the law, that failure threatens the rule of law. (See <A HREF="http://decorabilia.blogspot.com/2009/02/blacks-law-and-vigilantism-resolution.html" REL="nofollow">here</A> for the reasoning.) Thus, due process is simply outweighed by the desire to preserve order. (It should also be noted that vigilantism is <A HREF="http://decorabilia.blogspot.com/2009/02/vigilantism-as-establishment-violence.html" REL="nofollow">essentially conservative.</A>)<BR/><BR/>Furthermore, and perhaps more importantly, you can't let the Neg presume that due process is inherent to the resolution. What if the government in question is corrupt, despotic, or otherwise thoroughly undemocratic? Why would the Neg have the luxury of only "good government" when the government in question has already failed to enforce the law?Jim Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09928624189124041120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6865007.post-10377151892160709072009-02-26T18:55:00.000-08:002009-02-26T18:55:00.000-08:00Mr. Anderson-As always, great insight. When I rea...Mr. Anderson-<BR/><BR/>As always, great insight. <BR/><BR/>When I read this post in passing, I noticed this, "...the most glaring its lack of due process protections."<BR/><BR/>I am assuming that due process will be a rather popular argument for the neg, being easy to understand and blaring obvious to the resolution. However, I have not thought (successfully) of a possible refutation, any suggestions?<BR/><BR/>I was thinking of throwing an "ends-based" ethical theory in my rebuttal if my opponent brings up due process, quite possibly Consequentialism, and say how neither side holds due process rights (because the gov't has failed to enforce the law). This, however, I believe to be weak.<BR/><BR/>Also, if vigilantism is one "taking the law into his/her own hands", then wouldn't part of the "law" be due process rights? <BR/><BR/>Thank you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6865007.post-11940296704339925432009-02-21T01:39:00.000-08:002009-02-21T01:39:00.000-08:00You are amazing. I'm writing my Ld case and this i...You are amazing. I'm writing my Ld case and this is helping me so much with my second contention on the affirmative side. Thank you so much. I'm completely thankful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com